 |
RAT-S CAFE
Ride Anyone's Trip - S!Riders of ALL Marque's Welcome www.ratscafe.org & www.ratsdownunder.org
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Cam
HTFU !
Joined: 12 Apr 2011
Posts: 590
Location: Sydney
|
 Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 8:09 am Post subject: |
 |
|
| Boof wrote: | | Carlb1058 wrote: | | Even if they passed the laws I wouldn't wear one anyway - it's my life and if I choose to wear black I will, if I choose to ride without a helmet I will - phht bleedin' 'eart do-gooders can go ******* 'emselves. |
I heard the same comments when the helmet law was passed and those people chose to use a helmet and ride in the end
Just as i would if it became law to use Hi-vis because i like to ride and will continue till i am not able to do so
just my thoughts |
Yep and most will too Boof myself included. But fucked if I'm gonna go quietly to that fluro coloured highway! 
_________________
2010 Bonneville A1 - black with black bits on it!
www.trumpy.org |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
LG33
250cc
Joined: 27 Aug 2012
Posts: 92
Location: Queanbeyan NSW
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 8:13 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Cam wrote: | | I have quite a few research papers on conspicuity in relation to vehicles and accidents etc if anyone is bored enough to want to read them. |
Hey Cam, not that I'm bored, but I'm interested in reading them. If I'm going to do a push here in Canberra about this I need to be as prepared as possible.
Thanks.
_________________
LG ... Life's Good!
(aka Legs) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Boof
Hooligan
Joined: 11 Jan 2011
Posts: 2093
Location: sunny coast
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 8:16 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Cam wrote: | | Boof wrote: | | Carlb1058 wrote: | | Even if they passed the laws I wouldn't wear one anyway - it's my life and if I choose to wear black I will, if I choose to ride without a helmet I will - phht bleedin' 'eart do-gooders can go ******* 'emselves. |
I heard the same comments when the helmet law was passed and those people chose to use a helmet and ride in the end
Just as i would if it became law to use Hi-vis because i like to ride and will continue till i am not able to do so
just my thoughts |
Yep and most will too Boof myself included. But fucked if I'm gonna go quietly to that fluro coloured highway! |
I agree mate i will fight it till the end 
_________________
With the award winning T100 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Cam
HTFU !
Joined: 12 Apr 2011
Posts: 590
Location: Sydney
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 8:22 am Post subject: |
|
|
| LG33 wrote: | | Cam wrote: | | I have quite a few research papers on conspicuity in relation to vehicles and accidents etc if anyone is bored enough to want to read them. |
Hey Cam, not that I'm bored, but I'm interested in reading them. If I'm going to do a push here in Canberra about this I need to be as prepared as possible.
Thanks. |
I'll see what I can organise LG. Can I use the email you registered with on the Trumpy forum? I'll find them tonight and try to make sure I send you useful stuff....
_________________
2010 Bonneville A1 - black with black bits on it!
www.trumpy.org |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LG33
250cc
Joined: 27 Aug 2012
Posts: 92
Location: Queanbeyan NSW
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 8:28 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Cam wrote: |
I'll see what I can organise LG. Can I use the email you registered with on the Trumpy forum? I'll find them tonight and try to make sure I send you useful stuff.... |
yep - that be great. My sister won't be at work today so she'll ferret out some stuff for me Friday.
Thank you 
So if Victoria passes these laws does that mean we stop at the border and don our fugly high viz? Would they be jackets to go over the top of leathers?
_________________
LG ... Life's Good!
(aka Legs) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Cam
HTFU !
Joined: 12 Apr 2011
Posts: 590
Location: Sydney
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 8:52 am Post subject: |
|
|
| LG33 wrote: | | Cam wrote: |
I'll see what I can organise LG. Can I use the email you registered with on the Trumpy forum? I'll find them tonight and try to make sure I send you useful stuff.... |
yep - that be great. My sister won't be at work today so she'll ferret out some stuff for me Friday.
Thank you
So if Victoria passes these laws does that mean we stop at the border and don our fugly high viz? Would they be jackets to go over the top of leathers? |
They haven't proposed a law as yet I don't believe. This all stems from a policeman making comments to the effect of "all motorcyclist should wear hi-vis clothing. What are they crazy to not want to be seen?" Without any proof that it actually does anything. All based on assumption that if something is brightly coloured then it must be more visible.
The comments were made on the back of road safety research review currently being undertaken in Victoria. It includes things such as whether the TAC safety tax charged to motorcyclists is actually doing anything towards motorcycle safety or not. They bought a bunch of new police motorcycles with it to police peopel with, now that's a great safety iniative....nobs.
Damien Codognotto is a champion in the fight against it and definitely worth talkin to and reading his blogs - http://damiencodognottooam.blogspot.com.au/2012/08/hi-viz-vest-law-18.html
This makes for very interesting reading - http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=victoria+motorcycle+safety+review+hi-vis+police&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CDEQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.parliament.vic.gov.au%2Fimages%2Fstories%2Fcommittees%2Frsc%2Fmotorcycle_safety%2FTranscripts%2F20111017_VicPol_Transcript.pdf&ei=KtVHUKyfHs-QiAf7ioHwDQ&usg=AFQjCNEOSegPcbeT42YCsV_2HiJqsRNilQ&cad=rja
It inludes the police office in question making his comments about hi-vis. Also his admitting that they are not experts - but everynoe should wear hi-vis...
Here is an extract below from that Parliamentary transcript on Motorcycle Safety above.
**********************************************************
Supt STORK — Under the former VMAC and now the new motorcycle advisory group, one of the things
that we had a lot of success with, I believe, is the yellow flag/black flag project. It was a community awareness
and enforcement project where we regularly ran operations in relation to motorcyclists and motorcycle
activity — so scooters and motorcycles. We intercepted and spoke to large numbers of motorcyclists around
awareness as well as enforcement — for example, the need, we believe, for motorcyclists to wear protective
clothing. We regularly see motorcyclists who are not wearing gloves or not wearing other items of protective
clothing. We know that any sort of differential over about 30 kilometres an hour results in quite serious injury
for a motorcyclist. Even at low speed, coming off the bike at 30 or 40 kilometres an hour on a bitumen road, the
hands are the first thing that come down and contact the surface as a reaction, yet we see a lot of motorcyclists
who simply do not wear gloves.
Through that VMAG process, that was actually a project that was very well regarded from our point of view. It
gave us a lot of opportunity to provide awareness around that type of thing, but we recognise that we also have
an enforcement role, and we know that enforcement very clearly changes rider/driver behaviour. That is why
we have included in the submission a need for mandated protective clothing, because we know that if it is
mandated and people are not wearing it and get a ticket, they will start wearing it. There is a good compliance
around helmets, but those are the other items.
The CHAIR — One question on the clothing side: you mentioned that it should be high visibility. Most
motorcyclists wear darker coloured clothing. This might be evident among a number of the observers in the
room today. What sort of colours are you recommending for them?
Supt STORK — We have simply said high visibility. We are not experts around the actual visibility of the
clothing or how that might be portrayed. With our own solos we have moved to that high visibility clothing.
What we are saying is that they need to be seen.
The CHAIR — How would you further define the high-visibility nature of police motorcycle clothing?
Supt STORK — It would have to be high visibility, reflective and able to be seen at night in poor light
conditions. Many cyclists incorporate it now within the clothing that they actually purchase and wear, even
though in the sunshine you do not necessarily see it, but in poor light or once reflected through headlights, it
actually lights up. There are opportunities to do that type of thing. We are not engineers and we are not experts,
but we do believe that a high visibility would be of benefit.
The CHAIR — In your own case, what do you favour yourself?
Supt STORK — As far as high visibility? It is similar to what we wear as police solo riders: something that
reflects and can be seen, including your gloves and other items of clothing.
Acting Sr Sgt CHESTER — If I might just add to that, when the solo unit went through the process of
getting the high visibility protective jackets together, they went through the process with WorkSafe. WorkSafe
was very valuable with their input in the development of those jackets. They have since had a redevelopment
from WorkSafe, and their input has been invaluable towards that.
17 October 2011 Road Safety Committee 27
Mr ELSBURY — I have actually got a question in relation to safety clothing. I have not observed it, but I
have been told about Kevlar undergarments that people can put on underneath just a normal everyday business
suit. If we bring in a mandatory wearing of safety equipment, those poor people are going to be pulled over
every 5 minutes for not wearing the equipment and then have to unbutton the top or drop the daks a bit so that
they can prove they are wearing the right gear. Is there any way that we could possibly — I know it is
exceptionally difficult — recognise that sort of equipment that is available on the market.
Supt STORK — We have spoken to a number of groups about the high visibility and having a standard
around the clothing. It has actually had a lot of debate. We understand that there are some issues around that.
We have actually been told that we cannot legislate and have an actual standard. I guess to understand our point
of view, what would be good for police, enforcement and therefore the driver behaviour change, is upon
interception being able to check and say, ‘That jacket has a standard; yes, that’s okay’ or ‘No, it’s not’. It is not
something that would come in overnight. It is something that would need to be staged over quite a period of
time.
Mr ELSBURY — So long as they can show you an Australian standard or a Victorian standard — because
there is no Australian standard — for protective equipment, they can show you a tag and say, ‘That is what I
have got on. I’m kosher’.
Supt STORK — We know it is compliant, and we know they are safe wearing that piece of equipment.
Similarly with the scooter riders and both sexes that ride scooters, there are opportunities to have overgarments
to go over that to provide you with that protection and visibility as well. When you go to your meeting or when
you arrive at work you can take it off and place it in your scooter. Many people do that now.
*********************************************************
_________________
2010 Bonneville A1 - black with black bits on it!
www.trumpy.org |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LG33
250cc
Joined: 27 Aug 2012
Posts: 92
Location: Queanbeyan NSW
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 9:20 am Post subject: |
|
|
Thanks Cam. Whew. A couple of points:
We have actually been told that we cannot legislate and have an actual standard. So why the kerfuffle?
and we know they are safe wearing that piece of equipment. Protective clothing does NOT make you safe - it reduces injury.
Similarly with the scooter riders and both sexes that ride scooters, Is he implying that women only ride scooters and not bikes? And what does gender have to do with this issue?!?!
Bit of reading coming up methinks.
_________________
LG ... Life's Good!
(aka Legs) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Cam
HTFU !
Joined: 12 Apr 2011
Posts: 590
Location: Sydney
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 9:37 am Post subject: |
|
|
| LG33 wrote: | Thanks Cam. Whew. A couple of points:
We have actually been told that we cannot legislate and have an actual standard. So why the kerfuffle?
and we know they are safe wearing that piece of equipment. Protective clothing does NOT make you safe - it reduces injury.
Similarly with the scooter riders and both sexes that ride scooters, Is he implying that women only ride scooters and not bikes? And what does gender have to do with this issue?!?!
Bit of reading coming up methinks. |
The kerfuffle is because they may attempt to introduce it as legislative recommendation on the back of the safety review due to comments like the ones made in Parliament.
In France they have introduced the requirement to wear a hi-vis armband at least 10cm in width. Now that is likely a compromise I suspect.
Yep, that is correct it. Protective clothing only reduces injury in the event of an accident which is a good thing.
He probably is implying that more girls ride scooters than guys I can only guess at that though. It makes no difference whatsoever to the fact that it is other road users that cause the majority of accidents involving motorcycles and scooters etc. This is where the focus needs to be to increase the safety of motorcyclists, scooter riders, even cyclists and pedestrians.
_________________
2010 Bonneville A1 - black with black bits on it!
www.trumpy.org |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Carlb1058
"Lime E"
Joined: 30 Sep 2011
Posts: 788
Location: The Druitt
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 9:55 am Post subject: |
|
|
| LG33 wrote: | Thanks Cam. Whew. A couple of points:
(bits snipped)
Similarly with the scooter riders and both sexes that ride scooters, Is he implying that women only ride scooters and not bikes? And what does gender have to do with this issue?!?! |
OOPS methinks we now have one extremely pissed off Legs!! 
_________________
Carl
"I Am, Therefore You Ain't - Which Is Good Coz One Of Me's Enough!"
------
Long live the <b>"Lime E"</b> |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Santalum
My 1st Mobile Home :-)
Joined: 26 Nov 2011
Posts: 387
Location: Moonta, South Australia.
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 10:26 am Post subject: |
|
|
Had a group of half a dozen Victorian cop's wearing high vis vests pass me on bikes on the way back from Bendigo a few months back, could see em for miles behind in the rear view mirror, and once past me were still highly visible for quite a distance (much further than normal) thought to self that they were very effective.
One of my pet hates is riders on dark colour bikes wearing dark/black clothing, on the open road they are very difficult to pick up at a distance, add to this the fact that black is hotter than hell in the summer months.
Cant see why some manufacturer does not release a range of light colour motorcycle gear.
No I'm not in favour of fluro vests, I would be just as pissed as anyone if it was introduced as law.
_________________
Cheers,
Santa.
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LG33
250cc
Joined: 27 Aug 2012
Posts: 92
Location: Queanbeyan NSW
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 6:56 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | OOPS methinks we now have one extremely pissed off Legs!! |
yeah  Bloke one time asked me if I wanted to be a bloke just because I ride a Triumph, drive a 4WD dual cab, play tenor saxophone and can drink all afternoon in the pub without falling over. I'm very happy being female, haven't jumped the fence (yet  ), just that a lot of the fun things in life are considered to be blokey things.
_________________
LG ... Life's Good!
(aka Legs) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Cam
HTFU !
Joined: 12 Apr 2011
Posts: 590
Location: Sydney
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 7:59 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Santalum wrote: | | Had a group of half a dozen Victorian cop's wearing high vis vests pass me on bikes on the way back from Bendigo a few months back, could see em for miles behind in the rear view mirror, and once past me were still highly visible for quite a distance (much further than normal) thought to self that they were very effective. |
Problem is that this is not when the accidents happen. The most common ones involving motorcycles are fail to give way at an intersection and side-ons during a lane change. Seeing a snaking, moving line of bikes in your rear view or directly in front with bright colours doesn't solve these common accident types. Many cyclists will tell you that they have been collected despite wearing hi-vis gear and flashing lights. Motorcycles even have to have their headlight on and still not seen but why? People become conditioned to seeing something and dismiss it after awhile.
Worst of all this talk of hi-vis clothing and compulsory safety gear is trying to put the onus (read blame and guilt) back onto motorcyclists for the inability of others to operate a vehicle in a safe manner. It also points to the inability of the government agencies to deal with issues of road safety by recognising where the fault actually lies.
Drivers are too busy with mobile phones, GPS, iPad, Facebook, taking photos, texting, sexting, shaving, make-up and breakfast cereal bowls (yes I have had that one)! They don't pay full attention to driving and what is going on around them. Too many distractions.
Didn't see me? Bullshit, you didn't look. If they aren't looking then I could be Ronald Fuckin' McDonald and they still would not see me....
_________________
2010 Bonneville A1 - black with black bits on it!
www.trumpy.org |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bong60
Roof Specialist
Joined: 16 Jun 2010
Posts: 1206
Location: Mount Colah
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 8:46 am Post subject: |
|
|
I dont understand this at all. So if it passed we all have purchase new equipment. our wet weather gear has to be replaced.
Our safe leather jackets are replaced with what ??????????
Biyclist have been wearing bright coloured clothes for years , they still get hit and run over. I use to cycle and I cant tell you how many times i heard from a Driver I didnt see you mate.
They just dont care about something smaller than them selves.
Just the other day I was in a line of 3 cars and there was a driver waiting to pull out from a street on my left. He did so as soon as the cars went passed . He was looking in my direction and then pulled out in front of me ????? I had head lights on and there was nothing blocking his view to me. When I got beside him he wouldnt look at me. I think they think hes small he can move over.
Now if they can produce clothing that makes me look like a fucccking big MAC truck it might make a difference
_________________
Journey in Life, is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting '..holy sh*t ....what a ride!'
"look out for corners" 
Bongo (Terry) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TvZ
Mr Hipp
Joined: 12 Sep 2011
Posts: 591
Location: Sydney
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 9:28 am Post subject: |
|
|
Aloud very LOUD pipes!
That makes a difference.
Bonnie got scrambler pipes. and people drive/ride like idiots in front. Kawa got straight through pipes. Ringing-ear-loud, people seems to be more considerate. Maybe because the kawa looks a bit like the stereotype bikie bike.
_________________
Tertius (Just call me T or Joe ... whatever)
Troubles (06 Bonne T100), Thumper (VN800 Classic)
http://thegeekbiker.wordpress.com/ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
stang
500cc
Joined: 01 Aug 2010
Posts: 189
Location: East Kurrajong, New South Wales
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 11:01 am Post subject: |
|
|
Joan's Dr's Son on his bike got hit by a car the other day.
Apparently the car pulled out of driveway without looking.
Drivers excuse was "He was speeding".
So if he couldn't see the bike to avoid hitting him, how the FCUK did he know the bike was speeding!
The car driver must have been watching TAC ads!
Stan |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
